Mr. Ball.

Do you remember changing his handcuffs at any time so that he could put his hands in front of him.

Mr. Sims.

Of course, when he took the paraffin cast of his hands, he wasn't handcuffed?

Mr. Ball.

But that was late that evening?

Mr. Sims.

Yes; it was around--it was after dark, I believe.

Mr. Ball.

Now, I'm talking about--only about the interrogation that commenced about 2:20 in the afternoon of November 22.

Mr. Sims.

I just don't remember.

Mr. Ball.

You don't remember changing the handcuffs?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I don't.

Mr. Ball.

How long was he in Captain Fritz' office?

Mr. Sims.

Well, let's see, we first went in there at 2 and we stayed in there evidently--this says here that the Secret Service and the FBI took part in the interrogation of Oswald with Captain Fritz, and we took him down to the first showup at 4:05.

Mr. Ball.

Then, would you say he was in Captain Fritz' office from about 2:20 until 4 o'clock?

Mr. Sims.

Well, he had to be either in Captain Fritz' office or the interrogation room--that's the only two places that he was kept.

Mr. Ball.

All right, do you have any memory of how long he was in Captain Fritz' office the first time for the interrogation?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I don't recall if he stayed in there from 2:20 until showup time at 4:05 or not. He may have stayed in there all that time or he may have been put back in the interrogation room, which is right next door.

Mr. Ball.

Where is the interrogation room from Captain Fritz' office?

Mr. Sims.

It's in the same office, but just a different room--there's just a hall separating them.

Mr. Ball.

And in the interrogation room, were you with Oswald?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

You and Boyd?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

When he was in the interrogation room for the first showup, did you ask him any questions?

Mr. Sims.

Yes; we talked to him.

Mr. Ball.

Do you remember what you said to him?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I don't remember--it was just--I know I asked him his--later on I asked him about his life in Russia and about him being in the service and things of that nature.

Mr. Ball.

Did you ask him that at this time? Before the first showup at 4:05?

Mr. Sims.

I don't remember what time it was.

Mr. Ball.

There was sometime then that you asked him about his life in Russia?

Mr. Sims.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

Are you able to tell us about what time that was?

Mr. Sims.

No, sir; I sure don't know what time it was.

Mr. Ball.

Could it have been after he had been in Captain Fritz' office and and before the first showup?

Mr. Sims.

It was after he had been in Captain Fritz' office; yes, sir.

Mr. Ball.

And it was in the interrogation room?

Mr. Sims.

I--well, I don't know--I have talked to him both places, and I don't know--I know he wouldn't talk at all about the assassination of the President or of Officer Tippit, but he would talk about his life in Russia and some things over here and about his family and things.

Mr. Ball.

Now, you say he wouldn't talk about the assassination of the President, what do you mean?

Mr. Sims.

Well, he would just deny knowledge of it.

Mr. Ball.

And you say he wouldn't talk about Officer Tippit's death, what do you mean by that; what would he say, if anything?

Mr. Sims.

Well, he would make some remark and he just wouldn't talk about it.