Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Herndon.

"After talking to Little Lynn, did you hear any announcement that Oswald was about to be moved?"

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Herndon.

"Before you left your apartment Sunday morning, did anyone tell you the armored car was on the way to the police department?"

Mr. Ruby.

No.

Mr. Herndon.

Those are your main questions, and I will ask you some of these other routine questions.

Mr. Ruby.

All right; go ahead.

Mr. Herndon.

"Do you have any brothers?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

"Do you have any sisters?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

"Have you answered all questions truthfully?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

Now, here's a question I want to go over with you very carefully. "Did you ever hit anyone with any kind of weapon?"

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

All right; I'll give you an opportunity now to explain that to me. This is for my purposes of the examination.

Mr. Ruby.

Well, in running a--in my business, when you get somebody with a--it's a very exciting business. One particular night a man pulled a knife on me and I took a pistol and hit him on the head in that altercation, and sometimes you get fellows with real bad rough reputations. They're real toughs. There's no question about it, and being in my type of business for a livelihood, the only way you can---of course, I do call the law enforcement officers. At that particular moment, it's my life or theirs, and some of these men are pretty powerful physically, and I fought in every way possible, with my fists and everything else but to minimize the various troubles I had, where there would be an altercation or something come up, I'd tell them to leave, and of course, something would happen and they would go from here whatever it is. It happened a few times where I would pummel a few of these men.

Mr. Herndon.

I understand, Mr. Ruby, but all of these incidents that you recall are in connection with your operating this club?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; they are at the club. These boys are real bad boys and they all have records, and they're pretty tough guys. Will you agree with something on that?

Mr. Alexander.

That's right.

Mr. Herndon.

Then, on the actual test, I'm going to ask you this question: "Other than what you've told me, did you ever hit anyone with any kind of weapon?"

Mr. Ruby.

I don't follow--"Other than what you've told me?"

Mr. Herndon.

In other words, other than your being the owner of a nightclub, which because of the type of customers you occasionally have, you would have to use some force, perhaps hit a customer or hit someone in your club?

Mr. Ruby.

Yes.

Mr. Herndon.

Have you ever been involved in any other situation where you actually struck at somebody with a weapon?"Weapon" here I'm referring to as a gun, club, or knife or anything that would be other than Just a normal fist-fight.

Mr. Ruby.

Yes; that happened, but that was before I got in this trouble. This man threatened to kill me and was going to go for his gun, and I was nice enough to have him stay at my place and he was causing a nuisance in the vicinity of the club, causing brawls and all that and I tried to reprimand him, and a little boy of Italian descent and very gracious, somehow he got very belligerent with me, and I knew he had a car and he said, "I'm going to get my pistol," and there's a funny reaction about that. Once they get you cowered to that extent, then you're doomed, and there's a funny feeling, when I was with him, that you have with them. So, I got my pistol and I cornered him and I called him by his name and I called him a name, and I said, "You're going to kill me, you so-and-