have our own workshops for the children, recreation department. We have group service. We have our own hospital where the child is checked as to his physical health.
So the child is slowly but surely introduced in all these various departments.
Then the social worker has interviews with this child and with the parents of the child, who are invited.
Then the school authorities prepare a report for me so that when I see the child I have in front of me the probation officer's report, the social worker's report on his contact with the child and the parents, I have the report of group service or household, as it is called, I have the report of the medical department, and I have the report of the recreation department, and I have also the report of the psychologist.
And then I see the child and examine the child, and then I incorporate in my report all these, my own findings with the findings of the Youth House staff.

Mr. Liebeler.

Can you tell us approximately in 1953 how much of your time you devoted to the examination of children in Youth House?
Dr. HARTOGS. 30 hours per week.

Mr. Liebeler.

30 hours a week. And about how many children would you see during the period of time in a week, average week?
Dr. HARTOGS. During that, 10 or 12.

Mr. Liebeler.

So that you would spend somewhere between 2 and 3 hours with each child, is that correct?
Dr. HARTOGS. Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Is that still true?
Dr. HARTOGS. No, I mean not with the child itself. The child is seen for about half an hour to an hour.

Mr. Liebeler.

By you?
Dr. HARTOGS. By me, but then I have also to study the record which takes half an hour, and then it takes about an hour to dictate, so that counts about 2 hours.

Mr. Liebeler.

In your capacity as chief psychiatrist for the Youth House did you have occasion at any time to interview Lee Harvey Oswald?
Dr. HARTOGS. Yes.

Mr. Liebeler.

Would you tell us when that was and all that you can remember about that interview in your own words.
Dr. HARTOGS. That is tough. I remember that--actually I reconstructed this from what I remembered from the seminar. We gave a seminar on this boy in which we discussed him, because he came to us on a charge of truancy from school, and yet when I examined him, I found him to have definite traits of dangerousness. In other words, this child had a potential for explosive, aggressive, assaultive acting out which was rather unusual to find in a child who was sent to Youth House on such a mild charge as truancy from school.
This is the reason why I remember this particular child, and that is the reason why we discussed him in the seminar.
I found him to be a medium-sized, slender, curlyhaired youngster, pale-faced, who was not very talkative, he was not spontaneous. He had to be prompted.
He was polite. He answered in a somewhat monotonous fashion. His sentences were well structured. He was in full contact with reality.

Mr. Liebeler.

He was?
Dr. HARTOGS. He was in full contact with reality. I found his reasoning to be intensely self-centered, his judgment also centering around his own needs, and the way he looked at life and his relationships with people. This was mostly in the foreground. So this is what I remember actually.

Mr. Liebeler.

You say that you have reconstructed your recollection of your interview with Lee Oswald by thinking of the seminar that you gave; is that correct?
Dr. HARTOGS. The seminar; that is right.

Mr. Liebeler.

Do you have any independent recollection of the interview with Lee Oswald itself?
Dr. HARTOGS. Only from remembering the seminar, what kind of a boy he was and what I said at that time, I was able to reconstruct the picture of the boy as I just described it; yes. That is how I proceeded.

731-224 O---vol.VIII----15

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