Mr. Jenner.

Did you have the feeling that this experience with Edward Pic embittered her?

Mrs. Murret.

I really couldn't say. I don't think so, though. She seemed to be pretty happy with Mr. Oswald.

Mr. Jenner.

Before we get to Oswald now, did she complain or did she show any reaction from the divorce or anything, or was she getting along all right on what he was giving her and what he was giving John?

Mrs. Murret.

Well, she was getting along on what she was getting from him for herself and John, I think, and she would come over to our home. We lived on Dumaine Street at that time, but very near there, and I would give her all the help I could, and they would come over to dinner and things, but then I remember one time when John was sick, when he was a baby, he had this ear infection and she sent for Eddie. She said she was getting tired of staying up all night long, and for him to come over and stay a while, and he did.
Well, I think they had it out at that time. I don't know about that, but anyway, I think that was about the only time that Eddie saw John, was during the time that he had this ear trouble, when he was an infant. She wouldn't let John see Eddie. For myself, I thought that was cruel, because I don't believe in that.

Mr. Jenner.

Now I am interested in that, Mrs. Murret. You say she refused to permit her former husband to see the child?

Mrs. Murret.

Well, now I don't know whether he even asked to see the child or not. I don't know.

Mr. Jenner.

Well, you did say without prompting from me that she wouldn't permit him to see the child, didn't you?

Mrs. Murret.

That's right, she wouldn't.

Mr. Jenner.

I draw the inference from that to mean that he might have desired to see the child, but she wouldn't permit him, but you don't know that?

Mrs. Murret.

No; I don't know if he asked to see the child or not.

Mr. Jenner.

But you do have a recollection that she would not let Eddie see the child; is that right?

Mrs. Murret.

That's right. John never saw him after that, I don't think, not after he was a child.

Mr. Jenner.

But you said she was opposed to him seeing the child; is that right?

Mrs. Murret.

Oh, yes; I imagine she was.

Mr. Jenner.

Did anything else occur in this marriage up to the time of Marguerite's marriage to Oswald, anything else that you would say was usual insofar as personality is concerned?

Mrs. Murret.

No; not that I can think of.

Mr. Jenner.

You have mentioned a couple of aspects already.

Mrs. Murret.

No; I don't know of anything else. That would be about all I know. When she became pregnant and they separated, you know, it was just probably a day after that, whatever it was, but then she sued for a divorce and went to live in Carrollton, and the divorce was granted, and she got the child, and he supported John for 18 years. He sent him a good amount. He never failed to make one payment, and of course she got alimony for herself.
Of course, living the way we did as children, we knew how to economize and live on a small amount of money, where people who have always had a lot wouldn't know how to do that.

Mr. Jenner.

Of course I gather from what you have said--as a matter of fact, you said it, but had you said otherwise I would have been surprised, that your father was rearing six children, and he was a motorman on the streetcar lines here; is that right?

Mrs. Murret.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

And you were necessarily poor people.

Mrs. Murret.

Yes; he made $90 a month. We paid $12 a month house rent, or $14 a month house rent---I forget which-- and every day he would give us each $1 to do the marketing with, and we would have something left out of the $1, believe it or not.
My sister Pearl, when she would have anything left, she would go to the