Mr. Sorrels.

Yes, Roland is right.

Mr. Stern.

What did they tell you?

Mr. Sorrels.

He said that they were standing there waiting for the President to come by, and they were talking about security. And he said that right after that, that he looked up at this building over there, which is the Book Depository, and that there were a couple of windows open towards the west side, and that he saw a man standing in there with what appeared to be a rifle with a telescopic sight.

Mr. Stern.

Towards the west side?

Mr. Sorrels.

Yes--two windows towards the west side.
And that he remarked to his wife, "I guess that is a Secret Service man."
And I asked her if she saw it, and she said, no, that she had left her glasses home, and she is nearsighted, and she could not see him. And, of course, I asked him the description of the man. I asked him "How could you determine what made you think it had a telescopic sight on it?"
He said, "Well, it seemed like it was wider on the light background."
I said, "How was he holding it?"
He said, port arms--he was standing several feet back away from the window. And I asked him, "Could you identify that man?"
He said, "No, I could not."

Mr. Stern.

Did Mrs. Roland confirm that he had discussed this with her?

Mr. Sorrels.

She confirmed the conversation, but she said she could not see anything, because she didn't have her glasses.

Mr. Stern.

Did Mr. Roland tell you he had seen anyone else in the windows of the Book Depository Building?

Mr. Sorrels.

I don't recall that he did. I don't recall that at all. He may have, but I don't recall that.

Mr. Stern.

Did he mention anyone on the sixth floor, and particularly on the extreme east side of the sixth floor?

Mr. Sorrels.

No, I don't recall that he mentioned anyone there.

Mr. Stern.

What was your impression of what he told you?

Mr. Sorrels.

Well, of course, the thing that hit me first thing is why--he was right there by the sheriff's office, if he had just gone in there and said, "Look, I saw a man with a rifle over there."
I said, "Why didn't you say something to somebody about it?"
He said, "I just thought he was a Secret Service man."
And at that time he appeared to be, as far as I was concerned, truthful about the matter.

Mr. Stern.

You didn't have any reason to doubt him?

Mr. Sorrels.

No.

Mr. Stern.

And would the same be true of what Mr. Brennan told you, and Euins?

Mr. Sorrels.

Yes, sir.

Mr. Stern.

Did you look towards the window that Roland had pointed out from the spot at which he said he was standing, to see whether it was possible to observe from there someone standing several feet back from the window? Did you have occasion to check that?

Mr. Sorrels.

Well, no, not specifically.
Later on I heard that he had--I believe in his statement that he wrote up down there at the sheriff's office, something about 15 feet back. And I thought to myself, well, I don't think you could see anybody that far back.

Mr. Stern.

But he didn't tell you that?

Mr. Sorrels.

No, he just said he was standing back of the window there, just kind of looking around there. He said after he saw him there, he didn't pay any more attention, because he just thought it was a Secret Service man.

Mr. Stern.

What happened next?

Mr. Sorrels.

There was another witness there that I started talking to--I don't recall the name now, because I told him to go in--somebody that saw a truck down there this is before the parade ever got there that apparently had stalled down there on Elm Street. And I later checked on that, and found out that the car had gone dead, apparently belonged to some construction