and--uh--oh, and then about two or three cars after the President's car had passed. And then we were Just standing there looking around you know.

Mr. Belin.

All right. Then what happened?

Mr. Craig.

Then I heard an explosion.

Mr. Belin.

When you heard the explosion, what did you do?

Mr. CRAIG. Well, the first--nothing. I wrestled with my mind. I knew it was a shot but--uh--I didn't want to believe it. But, a few seconds later, I heard another explosion and, this time, I knew it was a shot. And, as I began to run, I heard a third one. I was running toward Houston Street.

Mr. Belin.

How many explosions did you hear altogether?

Mr. Craig.

Three.

Mr. Belin.

About how far were these noises apart?

Mr. Craig.

The first one was--uh--about three seconds--2 or 3 seconds.

Mr. Belin.

Two or 3 seconds between the first and the second?

Mr. CRAIG. Well, it was quite a pause between there. It could have been a little longer.

Mr. Belin.

And what about between the second and third?

Mr. Craig.

Not more than 2 seconds. It was--they were real rapid.

Mr. Belin.

All right. then what did you do?

Mr. Craig.

I continued running across Houston Street, across the parkway, across Elm Street and, by this time, the motorcade had went on down Elm Street and I ran up to the railroad yard and--uh---started to look around when the people began to all travel over that way. So, I began moving people back out of the railroad yard.

Mr. Belin.

Where did the noises or shots sound to you like they came from?

Mr. Craig.

It was hard to tell because---uh---they had an echo, you know. There was actually two explosions with each one. There was the uh--the shot and then the echo from it. So, it was hard to tell.
Mr. BELIN. Did people tell you, as you ran over there, where they thought the shots came from?
Mr. CRAIG. No; as I reached the railroad yard, I talked to a girl getting her car that--uh--thought they came from the park area on the north side of Elm Street.

Mr. Belin.

Did she say why she thought they came from there?

Mr. CRAIG. No; she was standing there and it sounded real loud at that particular point--

Mr. Belin.

Uh-huh.

Mr. Craig.

And she thought that's where they came from.

Mr. Belin.

Did anyone say they had seen anything--such as a rifle?

Mr. CRAIG. Yes; later on. A few minutes after that--I had taken this girl to one of our criminal investigators---and was talking to some other people. I talked to a young couple and the boy said he saw two men on the uh--sixth floor of the Book Depository Building over there; one of them had a rifle with the telescopic sight on it--but he thought they were Secret Service agents on guard and didn't report it. This was about--uh---oh, he said, 15 minutes before the motorcade ever arrived.

Mr. Belin.

Do you remember if that boy's name would have been Arnold Rowland---(spelling) R-o-w-l-a-n-d?

Mr. Craig.

Yes.

Mr. Belin.

Does that sound like it?

Mr. Craig.

Yes; it sounds like the name---yes.

Mr. Belin.

His wife might be Barbara Rowland?

Mr. Craig.

Yes; I believe her name was Barbara.
Mr. BELIN. Before you talked to this couple, did you do anything else or talk with anyone before you got back with them?
Mr. CRAIG. Well, I looked around, you know, for just--after I turned this girl over to Mr. Lewis--I began looking around and talking to people to see if they'd seen anything. And that's when I ran onto this man and his wife.

Mr. Belin.

And about what time do you think this was in relation to---from when you heard the shots to the time .that you talked to this young couple?

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