Mr. Holland.

you were at that time? Roughly in the middle of the overpass over Elm street?

Mr. Holland.

That's right.

Mr. Stern.

And where, in relation to the concrete fence that----

Mr. Holland.

Picket fence or concrete?

Mr. Stern.

No; the concrete.

Mr. Holland.

Oh, the concrete banister?

Mr. Stern.

The concrete banister. Were you right at the banister?

Mr. Holland.

I was; would you like to see the exact location?

Mr. Stern.

Yes.
Mr. HOLLAND. This is my son standing in the exact location I was in [indicating].

Mr. Stern.

Off the record a moment.
(Discussion off the record.)

Mr. STERN. Back on the record. Well, then, we'll mark this as Exhibit B, reserving Exhibit A for this drawing, and Exhibit B is a photograph you took on Saturday, November 23, of your son standing in the position at the banister of the triple overpass where you were at the time the motorcade came into view.

Mr. Holland.

That's right.
Mr. STERN. Fine. That is quite a good picture. At that time, can you indicate, to the best of your knowledge where other persons were standing on the overpass, and particularly in relationship to the two police officers who were on the overpass?
Mr. HOLLAND. Well, as well as I remember, one police officer was standing right behind me, or pretty close behind me.

Mr. Stern.

Put a "2" where you believe he was standing.

Mr. HOLLAND. He was standing in close enough so that he could see, but he could also see the people, and the other policeman, I think, unless he left immediately before this happened--see, when they turned there, I didn't turn around and look back any more, but the last time I saw this policeman he was standing over here on this side, about [indicating].

Mr. Stern.

Standing almost directly behind you?

Mr. Holland.

Yes.

Mr. Stern.

But, on the other side of the overpass, facing west?

Mr. HOLLAND. Yes; all this way, across the tracks. See, these are all railroad tracks, and he was standing over here on this side immediately before this motorcade turned this. Now, after they turned, I don't know, but--because I was watching them.

Mr. Stern.

Yes. Would you put a "3" where you believe he was standing and can you indicate on there where you believe the other 12 to 15 or 16 people were who were on the Overpass at this time.

Mr. Holland.

Well----

Mr. Stern.

Were they all standing in one group?
Mr. HOLLAND. There was a pretty close group between this column here, and this place right in there. In other words, if I can--had a shot of it, we could find that pretty close. I don't know that I have one.

Mr. Stern.

What you have indicated on the drawing is on the part of the overpass from one side of Elm Street to the other.

Mr. HOLLAND. Yes; this is one side of Elm Street, and this would be the other. If you would get over here there would be a banister or something in your way, and this is grass out here, and you couldn't get to get too good a view, and most of the people was from this right in here, over to right in here [indicating].

Mr. Stern.

All right. Now----

Mr. Holland.

And this bench runs right along similar to that, up here to this [indicating].

Mr. Stern.

That is a wooden picket fence that you are describing that runs from the end of the concrete banister?

Mr. HOLLAND. That's right.

Mr. Stern.

Over to a little----