Mr. Jenner.

Mrs, PAINE, This probably was in October, She told me that the previous year she had--

Mr. Jenner.

1962?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes. She had in the fall, she had gone to a friend's home, left Lee. She described his face as she left, as shocked and dismayed and unbelieving.

Mr. Jenner.

Unbelieving?

Mrs. Paine.

In a sense that she was truly walking out on him.

Mr. Jenner.

Yes. Excuse me. Did she put it in those terms, that she was leaving?
Mrs. PAINE, She was leaving; yes.

Mr. Jenner.

She left him?
Mrs. PAINE, Yes; and went to stay with a friend, Then moved to the home.

Mr. Jenner.

Did she name the friend?

Mrs. Paine.

She did not name the friend; no. The friend's name came up in another connection, but I had no way of making the connection until after I learned about this to whom she referred.

Mr. Jenner.

Do you now recall the name?

Mrs. Paine.

She went to Katya Ford's.

The Chairman.

To the Fords?

Mrs. Paine.

To Katya, being the friend, Mrs. Ford.

The Chairman.

Mrs. Ford.

Mrs. Paine.

And then moved. She did tell me this--She had moved on the weekend to a different home. Then Lee came there, pleaded for her to comeback, promised that everything would be different. She went back and she reported--as she reported it to me, things were no different.

Mr. Jenner.

Were not different?

Mrs. Paine.

Were not different.

Mr. Jenner.

Did you undertake a discussion with her as to what the things were that were disturbing her?

Mrs. Paine.

That offended her that much? No; I did not.

Mr. Jenner.

That led her to leave her husband?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Jenner.

There was no discussion of that?

Mrs. Paine.

No.

Mr. Mccloy.

Did you ever witness any altercations?

Mrs. Paine.

Indeed I saw them argue a good deal.

Mr. Mccloy.

Sharp arguments?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Dulles.

But no violence of any kind?

Mrs. Paine.

No physical violence.

Mr. Mccloy.

Any profanity?

Mrs. Paine.

I am not sure I know Russian profanity. He was very curt and told her to shut up quite a great deal.

Mr. Jenner.

In your presence?

Mrs. Paine.

Yes.

Mr. Jenner.

In the presence of others?

Mrs. Paine.

Particularly in New Orleans the first time when we went down, when I took her to New Orleans in May, he was very discourteous to her, and they argued most of that weekend. I was very uncomfortable in that situation, and he would tell her to shut up, tell her, "1 said it, and that is all the discussion on the subject."

Representative Ford.

What were the kinds of discussions that prompted this?

Mrs. Paine.

I can't recall that, and I have already had my brain picked trying to, with other people trying to, to recall what was the difficulty. I do recall feeling that the immediate things they were talking about were insufficient reason for that much feeling being passed back and forth, and I wondered if I wasn't adding to the strain in the situation, and did my best to get back to Texas directly. But the well, I do recall one thing, yes--we arrived with a big load of blackberries that we bought from a vendor along the street.