Mr. Hubert.

I don't know. I think it was passed on to you, and I understand that you recommended against it.
Captain FRITZ. A call at home no, sir; I didn't exactly recommend against it. If you would ask me now, I really don't favor nighttime moves, because I can't see any further at night than I can in the daytime, and if a man shoots a man, you can see him just as far in daylight as at night, and with proper security, you should be able, to move anyone through town without waiting for nightfall.
We don't go to court at night, and we take prisoners back and forth to court all the time during the daylight, so I wouldn't see any particular need to wait for nighttime.
I did have a call out to my home from a uniformed captain who told me they had had a threat which sounded very much like a trick, the FBI got a call, I believe, near the same time saying we had better transfer him, that 200 or 300 men are going to take him away from us.
I certainly wouldn't send a man out with two or three officers. Two or three hundred men could be just as bad at night as during the day.
I told him he had better talk to the chief, because he was making some preparations. And I found out later that he did. He called the chief, but I don't think he could reach him, and he decided not to transfer him, I was told.
That call came after my call from the chief asking me about the 10 o'clock transfer.

Mr. Hubert.

There have been some reports that have reached us that at the very moment of transfer, that is to say, when you were coming out, and until the shooting, that the various police officers who were lining the wall had their sidearms drawn and in their hands. Did you see anything like that?
Captain FRITZ. I didn't see anything like that as I came out. I think probably what they are telling you about, is that some of the officers drew their sidearms after the shot was fired.

Mr. Hubert.

Was there any--
Captain FRITZ. I didn't see anyone with a pistol in their hand as we came out. If we had seen that, we probably would have gone back to the jail, because we wouldn't have known what an officer was doing with a gun drawn. He had no need to have a gun out at that time.

Mr. Hubert.

Did you see any shotguns visible or riot guns?
Captain FRITZ. No, sir; I didn't. We had shotguns and rifles in my car for this transfer. I had already put them on the floor of the car where we could pick them up easily.

Mr. Hubert.

Were they visible?
Captain FRITZ. No, sir; they weren't visible. There was an officer with them.

Mr. Hubert.

Captain, I believe that is all I have. Is there anything else you can say?
Captain FRITZ. I don't know of anything other than one thing that the chief mentioned to me. He said something about someone recommended someone taking him off on the first floor of the elevator.

Mr. Hubert.

I don't think there has been any discussion this morning between us that has not been made a part of this deposition?
Captain FRITZ. I don't believe so. I think all of this is in my testimony in Washington. I feel sure that it is.
Anything else that you want to ask me about, feel free to do so.

Mr. Hubert.

Thank you very much, Captain. That is all there is to it.

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Sgt. Roland A. Cox

Testimony of Sgt. Roland A. Cox

The testimony of Sgt. Roland A. Cox was taken at 8:15 p.m., on July 13, 1964, in the office of the U.S. attorney, 301 Post Office Building, Bryan and Ervay Streets, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Leon D. Hubert, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission. Sam Kelley, assistant attorney general of Texas, was present