Mr. Griffin.

Now, if you had seen the third man after it reached, or as it reached Lowery, do you think you would have seen that man move from the TV cameras to the channel 5 camera that was stationed behind the railing? Do you think you would have seen him move from there to the position of the camera?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Well, let me put it this way: I didn't just watch this camera all the way through, because it done past this point, and the next time I saw it, I remember seeing it when I was looking through the square glass in the door when I was holding it to, and I saw the two men push it up here.
So, I don't know whether I was looking at the camera at the time I was down here, but I didn't see anyone go around to the camera.

Mr. Griffin.

At the time that the TV camera came through the door, the double doors, you were looking through another glass ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No; now at the time it came through the door, this door was being opened from the inside.

Mr. Griffin.

This single door that entered into the jail office opened inward toward the jail office, and it didn't obstruct your view ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No; they came through the swinging door. I was standing in the doorway and I held this door open.

Mr. Griffin.

You held open the swinging doors for them ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Right; when they came through.

Mr. Griffin.

You pulled it back toward yourself?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

They were already going past, and I grabbed ahold.

Mr. Griffin.

So, the swinging doors were between you, your face and them?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No; I was standing at the edge of this swinging door holding it back for them.

Mr. Griffin.

So, you were behind the swinging doors when you were holding the end of the swinging door, and you were off to the side?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Right.

Mr. Griffin.

And there was nothing on part of that door which was between you and them?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No.

Mr. Griffin.

How far away would you say you were from those men at that point?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

About 3 feet Maybe 2, or I could have reached out and put my hand on one of them.

Mr. Griffin.

Could you see the faces of those men ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

The one on the left, the one that had on a black coat, when he came through, he looked up like that and he was pushing on through.

Mr. Griffin.

When you ultimately met over there, you confronted those men afterward and saw-the man in the black coat, was it the same man that turned up and looked at you?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Is there any question in your mind about that?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No; I remember his nose real good.

Mr. Griffin.

Now, after those men passed you, did you let the doors swing back, or did you walk back with it, or what did you do?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I just turned loose of it. There was another officer that closed right in behind them.

Mr. Griffin.

There were other officers that closed in behind the TV cameramen ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

Yes.

Mr. Griffin.

Where did those officers go?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

They just stood there. There were some standing in front of the door at the time.

Mr. Griffin.

But you didn't follow them through the door?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

No. They were already stationed there, and then when they started pushing through, the doors came open, and the officers Just moved aside.

Mr. Griffin.

As that door swung shut, do you recall whether you then looked back up the hallway from which that camera had come to see if other people were coming down, or whether you might have looked in toward the jail office, or whether you continued to watch them go on ?

Mr. Cutchshaw.

I don't remember.